So really he should be asking “Should Women Wear Leggings?”
However, why are Christian men constantly rehashing the same nonsense? Do they literally, with everything going on in the world, have nothing else to stew over besides their own issues with lust?Poverty? Human Trafficking? Racism? War? The fact our foster care system is underfunded and overburdened? Like a couple years ago Dale Partridge or whatever talked about this and the consensus was shut-up. Get your lust in check, practice the spiritual discipline of chastity in your own marriage, and stop watching porn.
Now, I don’t really follow Owen in general, so I can’t really speak to his overall theology. This is (again) because of the above blog post which told me he was a Biblical clown twisting scripture, or just making stuff up, to suit his personal worldview.
Gentleness is not a trait only for women, it is a fruit of the Spirit all Christians should pursue and display, per Galatians which I assume Owen believes is part of the Bible. Men, as leaders, should be leading in gentleness, patience, kindness, and other fruits of the Spirit, per their supposed God-ordained placement as heads or spiritual leaders of their families. Being a leader means leading by example; it mean exemplifying the traits you want to see in those who follow you. It does not mean playing football and soccer. One does not need to be a theologian to see Owen is more interested in promoting patriarchy over Biblical truth. One only needs to read the Bible for themselves.
Here is another such example of Owen not knowing anything. Tellingly, Owen never defines modesty per the Bible. Historically, modesty standards have varied widely throughout history, and even from culture to culture. During Bible times, everyone wore robes though I have no doubt Owen would be the type to throw a fit over a male wearing a dress now.
The Bible makes no mention of modesty as pertains to clothing, but tells us that lust is an issue of the heart, and “if anyone looks at a women with lust, it’s better to gouge his own eyes out, than the whole body go into hell”.
I’m generally all for, within reason, doing what I can to not tempt my bros in Christ with my clothing. That said, the female body is not inherently sexual. Curves, hips, etc. which God gave women, are not things that needs to be hidden. Adam and Eve were born naked, it was only after sin that they covered up and it’s a shame Christian men, who should be the most free from sin, seem to struggle with looking at knees, shoulders, and legs even more than non-Christian men. It’s perhaps the most telling sign that purity culture and modesty rules don’t work.
If Christian men are unable to look at a woman in leggings without thinking impure thoughts, they should, per Jesus suggestions, get a spoon and start the digging their eyeballs out.
Was gonna blog about this when it was actually relevant but… anyway TL;DR: Utah Pastor Brian_Sauve is triggered women have bodies and sometimes post pictures of them online (even while pregnant), the sight of which is too much for his Christian flesh to handle.
So why is Pastor Brian following women who are posting bikini pics online?
Second, of all the issues in the world pertaining to women he could, as a man speak up against, such as the prevalence of domestic abuse in the church and elsewhere, sexual assault/harassment so widespread in the church alone it created a #churchtoo movement, rape, human trafficking… it’s bikini pics this guy decides to be righteously upset about. I’m sure the fact women have breasts (that God Himself gave us) would definitely top the Lord’s “what am I flipping tables over today?” list.
Tellingly, Utah Pastor Brian quotes nay a scripture anywhere because the Bible never instructs women to cover up over a man’s lack of self-control. Rather, lust is an issue of the heart, not an issue of what one wears, and Jesus said, “[a]nd if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell,” (Matthew 5:29, KJV).
Scripturally (and I assume as a Christian pastor, he has read and believes in the Bible), if Pastor Brian Sauvé can’t handle seeing women in bikinis, he should gouge his own eyes out. Or perhaps less violently, stop going online. Get rid of a smartphone, personal computer, and social media, and like maybe stop following women online who post these sort of pictures? Living a Christian life often requires radically changing the way one lives – just look at how Jesus lived. Yet swaths of Christian men seem to believe in a gospel that says there’s no need to pursue holiness and cultivate discipline in themselves, or radically alter and inconvenience their lifestyles in order to live a Christian life, particularly in the area of male sexuality.
But this is simply untrue. Christian men are more than conquerors and nothing is impossible with Christ. Furthermore, Timothy entreats men to “treat younger women as sisters with all purity” but only if they’re covered from the neck up and Galatians says to put down your flesh and walk in the spirtexcept in the area of male sexuality. Believing men are incapable of leading as the Bible commands diminishes the confidence God has in a man’s ability to lead in all areas, including that of self-control and self-discipline.
There’s nothing inherently sexual about the female body anyway. In Genesis, it was only after sin that Adam and Eve realized they were naked. Modesty standards vary widely across cultures and have changed throughout history – even today, in certain places only prostitutes wear sleeveless shirts.
Society has so oversexualized the female body, men can scarcely look at young women (because I doubt Brian cares if 80 year old Grandmas post bathing suit pictures online) any longer without lust, even when that woman isn’t doing anything particularly sexual. Disturbingly, Christian men seem to struggle in this area even more than their secular counterparts, which should be a giant red flag over how successful purity culture has been. Modesty rules are like putting a Band-Aid over gangrene. No matter how much gauze one uses, there’s still a dying, rotten limb under there that needs to be cut off. Brian’s attitude here, while at first glance seems harmless enough and even reasonable for Christians, insidiously reflects the church’s attitude overall. A church that has been unwillingly to deal with lust from a spiritual perspective, shifting the blame on women, and even children, when men fail to have self-control around them.
Now, lest anyone actually read my blog and call me a heathen, there is something in not intentionally causing others to stumble and that can apply to how one dresses. Paul in 1 Corinthians 8 talks about eating idol meat sold at the markets. To some, this meat is cheap hamburger, so they feast and are #blessed. To others, weak in their faith, it makes them think of sacrificing to idols and they should avoid eating it entirely. Paul goes on to say that a Christian who eats this meat and causes his brother to stumble, is sinning against God and therefore Paul would never use his freedom in such a way (and neither should we).
But the caveat here is these idol meat eaters are weak Christians and Brian is a pastor. Someone so weak in their faith that the mere sight of a woman’s stomach leads him astray really ought to not be leading any church, anywhere, in any part of the world. Like every other day some pastor is caught in some form of sexual sin ranging from cheating to child abuse. And no wonder when we keep putting men still battling their flesh so badly they can’t even look at midriffs online up on pulpits, directly in the path of all sorts of spiritual attacks. Self-control is evidence of a walk with God and certainly every tree that doesn’t bear good fruit should be cut down and thrown into the fire, or at the very least not propped on a stage every Sunday.
Certainly, as Christian women we should be sympathetic towards Christian men navigating today’s hypersexualized world, remembering that our bodies are temples and also the internet is forever. However, women are not responsible for men’s sexual purity, nor is there a Biblical basis to demand women hide themselves because men are physical/lustful/visual/etc. First and foremost, we do all for the glory of God not man. Also, I have hormones and think men are hot, yet I don’t see him advocating men stop posting topless pics of their abs online to help my virgin self remain pure.
On a serious note, this attitude sets men up to believe they’re victims of their mindsets and biology, helpless to do anything except hope they never see cleavage not belonging to their wife in their lifetimes. It diminishes a man’s ability to remain pure within themselves for themselves, but we know that God would not task men with the burden of leadership if they were truly incapable of leading in all areas. Following Christ often requires radical change and even discomfort, something men like Brian rarely advocate for. Those seeking true freedom should be willing to inconvenience themselves to live as Jesus did, setting aside their desires and picking up their own crosses. Men are fully capable of leading in areas of purity, patience, and self-control. Believing otherwise is not believing the very Bible upon which Brian’s faith is built upon.
Anyway, Brian went on some tangent I couldn’t be bothered to read fully, where he said “Christian, you are no longer totally depraved.”
Men are Christ’s workmanship, tasked with spiritual authority and are fully capable of walking in purity without the help of women. This isn’t some poisonous, feminist, anti-patriarchy agenda or whatever he’s whining about, this is straight from the Bible.
Christians ought to be sober minded and alert, and especially aware of what the Bible really says so we’re not swayed by those posting hot takes on social media for retweets. Turn to the Word of God, not wannabe Christian influencers. Test everything with scripture, not culture, tradition, or opinions.
At the end of the day, there’s nothing wrong with wearing a bikini, taking a belly pic of your growing child, or wearing leggings. The female body isn’t something women should be ashamed of, nor a thing that needs to be covered up and hidden out of fear because God has not called us to a spirit of fear. As women, we are created in the image of God with much care, thought, intention, and beauty and if God found something inherently sinful about how He created us, He would’ve covered us with fur or crocodile skin. So whatever you wear, wear it for the glory of God not man. And if that happens to help your brothers in Christ not stumble, *thumbs up*.
Thus her subtle defense of Josh Duggar comes at no shock – sounds like Ken has more than a few skeletons in his own closet given how hard she’s simping for pedos. Fortunately, Luke 12:2-3 says, “Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. 3 Therefore whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed on the housetops.”
Fundies and their holier-than-thou cause “we don’t smoke, curse, and watch tv attitude” whilst supporting abusive men is baffling.
Christians like Lori seem to have intentionally forgotten what Biblical marriage is and consequently spend too much time justifying bad behavior from husbands to maintain a veneer of holiness by staying married at all costs. Marriage should reflect our relationship with Jesus; He is the Groom, we are His bride. Yet, at some point some Christians began interpreting headship not as like Jesus whom husbands are called to emulate; the same Jesus who led by displaying the fruits of the spirit (gentleness, kindness, etc.) and serving his bride while on Earth, but as “blindly and unquestioningly obeying the whims of a husband who may or may not be acting like Christ,” which is not Biblical.
I’m convinced the Apostle Paul was thinking specifically of Lori Alexander when he told women to shut-up – I’ll add that Lori shouldn’t teach women, children, animals, plants, fictional characters, and aliens too. Lori is ever learning, yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth because her entire identity is wrapped in being a wife/mother, rather than in Christ. Thus everything she “teaches” comes not from a place of “what can I learn about God/how can I become more like Him?” and teach others to do so, but “how can I keep being a wife and ensure others stay wives too?” It’s a sad state of existence.
Any who, Lori blogged about Anna Duggar in response to a Facebook post. I plucked out some highlights to discredit. Her words are in parenthesis, which I’m too lazy to underline.
Divorce rates among Christians are almost as high as they are among “heathens” lol. Clearly, something ain’t working.
Purity culture is not “God’s way.”
Nowhere are women instructed to only wear skirts and cover up for the sake of men
Nowhere is the onus of sexual purity put on solely women/children but on men who are told to pluck their eyeballs out
Again, Lori’s own husband, Ken Alexander, said incest/molestation are normal so idk why she’s acting up. These are his words, credit freejinger as he obviously deleted the OG post.
“Such molestation is rampant around the world, especially with families in close quarters where the the children come from multiple fathers. Where I grew up my friends would ask me if I molested my sisters, because for them it was common place with the older sister often molesting the younger brother, etc.”
Ken Alexander, Lori Alexander’s husband.
Jim Bob admits about 19:00 they talked to a lot of other families who had worst stories than theirs in regards to Josh molesting his sisters, the details of which they severely downplayed.
This is a grievous sin that breaks God’s heart. Yet women like Lori consistently downplay what would have gotten these men stoned to death in OT times. Funny how those who want to live like the Israelites in Deuteronomy did, cherry-pick what to follow. Kinda sounds like they’re not actually interested in following scripture, but creating a cult.
The Bible does in fact guarantee a safe and happy marriage. Ephesians commands husbands to love their wives as Christ did, being willing to lay down their lives for wives.
Also, the trial shows that Jim Bob severely downplayed the details of the molestation.
1 Peter is about suffering/submission in persecution for everyone (not just wives), while promoting the authority of Jesus aka suffering does not accomplish redemption because only Jesus did that (1 Peter 4:12).
The author tells persecuted Christians to submit to human authorities for the sake of furthering the gospel. It says “slaves submitting to your masters” (2:18), “likewise wives submitting to your own husbands” (3:1), and “likewise husbands livingwith your wives… assigninghonor to them” (3:7).
Wives were to submit because this was the simplest way of leading unsaved husbands to Christ. It clearly does not mean wives can change their husbands generally but speaking to a specific situation in which Christian wives were being persecuted for their faith by their unsaved husbands. And the key is the husbands are unbelieving. They aren’t like many “Christian” patriarchs who treat their wives terribly using the very faith meant to give them joy, peace, and freedom.
This is the context Lori is ignoring – a very specific scenario that isn’t even applicable to Anna, nor most situations Christians throw this verse at. Furthermore, the verse isn’t about relationships, it’s about one of the many forms of persecution Christians encountered.
There’s nothing redemptive about suffering. The Bible even says if there’s a way out of persecution, bounce. 1 Corinthians 7:21-23, “Were you a bondservant when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.)… 23You were bought with a price; do not become bondservants of men.”
Lastly, the Bible tells us exactly what to do with those whom are not acting as God commands. Matthew 7 warns against wolves in sheep’s clothing, telling us to look at the fruit they bear and if they’re not bearing good fruit, cut them down. Not stay married, not defend, cut them.
2 Tim 3 says, “…For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, demeaning, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good, traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid these people.“ (CSB). Jesus said to drown those who harm children.
There is not a single verse that says, “except if it’s your husband doing these actions. Then stay married, support him, and ignore everything else the Bible says.” Forgiveness is tantamount to the Gospel, but it’s not a get out of jail free card in terms of consequences, and it must accompany repentance (a confession and genuine desire to change).
We are saved through Christ alone. This no “spiritual” battle, this is Josh facing the consequences of his own actions.
Matthew 19:14-16 (ESV) says, “… You flood the Lord’s altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer looks with favor on your offerings or accepts them… 14 You ask, “Why?” It is because the Lord is the witness between you and the wife of your youth. You have been unfaithful to her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant...16 “The man who hates and divorces his wife,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “does violence to the one he should protect…” God hates men whom hate their wives, who they are to protect.
1 Corinthians 7 14-15, “… Yet if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or sister is not bound in such circumstances, God has called us to live in peace.”
In Exodus 21, Moses says a wife should leave and marry another man if her husband takes another wife, yet does not provide her with food, clothing, and marital duties aka fulfill his role as a husband. Also, Jesus merely warned against divorce, but didn’t forbid it.
Lastly, Paul says we have a Biblical obligation to expose bad behavior from spouses. Eph. 5: 11-13, “11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible...”
God does not have an issue with women teaching or holding positions of authority over men (nor must they be silent in church).
In Proverbs, wisdom is personified as a she.
Deborah was a judge with the highest position in Israel, and was put there by God Almighty Himself.
Paul lists several female co-laborers in the Gospel, one of which seems to be an apostle, the other (Phoebe) was a deacon.
Timothy learned his faith from his grandmother, a woman.
Lydia, a woman, brought the gospel to her entire household, which presumably included men unless she was a lesbian.
Ruth and Esther – why would God allow these books in the Bible and then expect men to ignore them?
The Shunammite woman didn’t ask her husband’s permission to build a place for Elisha to rest, she simply said let’s build this (2 Kings 4) and did it as she knew it’s what God wanted.
Jesus praised Mary for choosing the better option, which was to sit at His feet and learn, while Martha was running around doing housework. This was radical considering women were barred from learning and weren’t even allowed in church.
In Genesis 21:12, God literally told Abraham “… whatever Sarah tells you, listen to her and do what she asks, for your descendants will be named through Isaac.”
Proverbs 31 woman’s husband had full confidence in her; she is described as having wisdom and faithful instruction.
In Corinthians 11, Paul says that every woman who prays and prophesies with her head uncovered in church dishonors her head, meaning women were clearly not silent, nor expected to be, but were praying and prophesying alongside men!
This breed of Paulettes using Paul to say women should stay at home eternally pregnant and never speak take what Paul meant for specific situations and apply it generally. Context matters which is why at times the Bible seems to contradict itself. However, it doesn’t when you are reading scripture to learn who God is, rather than reading scripture simply to defend your point of view or lifestyle. You can find scripture that seems to support abortion (Numbers 5: 27 and Hosea 9:14), which all these fundies would balk at. Yet, this is exactly what they do.
Relegating women to insignificant positions in ministry stifles their God-given potential, and is the equivalent of men going into battle with only one leg. It’s no surprise the American church is crumbling with this stupid attitude propelled by clowns like Voddie, McArthur, and Strachem – rather than partnering with their wives spiritually and in terms of parenting as the Bible says, they subjugate and diminish who God made women to be in an effort to maintain their cults and have access to “Godly” sex.
It’s sad to see Christian women like the Transformed Wife accepting, and even expecting, such low standards from Christian men, who should be above excellent husbands, fathers, and people in general. Anna is well within her right to leave per Paul, Jesus, Moses, or whoever else Lori wants to base her faith on for the day.
Christians should regularly read their Bible and stop listening to those injecting harmful and insidious ideas into the faith intended to support their worldview, rather than teach us who God is.
When we know the Word, we won’t fall prey to the silly doctrines of those like the Transformed Wife, but will be able to combat these harmful ideas with the truth of scripture. We shouldn’t tolerate, nor dismiss, sinful behavior simply because wives are told to submit. This is an intentional twisting of what God created marriage to be like. Submission was never meant to come without husbands displaying the sacrificial love Jesus did for his bride, and we have an obligation to expose sinful behavior when it comes to our attention, whether it be from husbands or someone else.
In Christ, there is neither male nor female. We are Christians first; wives, mothers, sisters, brothers, husbands, men, and women second and God is the ultimate authority over our lives, whether we’re married, or single.